License to Thrill: Surviving the Wild & the Boardroom

🔥 Beyond the Boardroom – Joe Phillips: The Jungle vs. The Boardroom

What’s scarier—Lord Sugar or a charging buffalo? 🦬 Joe Phillips, a self-proclaimed "James Bond of the Jungle", swaps survival stories from the African bush for the cutthroat boardroom of BBC’s The Apprentice.

In this episode, we dive into:
 🌿 Safari vs. The Apprentice – Why Joe wasn’t fazed by Lord Sugar after facing the wild
🕷️ Wild Encounters – The animal that made him faint and his closest calls with danger
📦 Strangest Fan Gifts – The weirdest things fans have sent him (yes, it involves feet!)
🏃‍♂️ Survival & Success – How his love for adventure, fitness, and conservation fuels his career

🚀 This episode is packed with hilarious, jaw-dropping stories and an inside look at Joe’s wild journey from the savannah to the spotlight.

💬 Which of Joe’s stories shocked you the most? Drop a comment or review! Your support helps us bring you even more incredible guests and insights. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe and rate the podcast—it makes a huge difference! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

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🔊 Listen now—you won’t want to miss this one!

📢 The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of Aleksandra King, the podcast, or its producers. This podcast is for entertainment only.

The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of Aleksandra King, the podcast, or its producers. This podcast is for entertainment only.

Transcript

In this episode, I interview Joe Phillips, who is a self proclaimed James Bond of the jungle. He talks about why he's not scared of Alan Sugar, because he's faced far worse things in the jungle. And we cover which animal made him faint. We cover some of the weirdest things fans have ever sent him or said to him.

It's a really interesting and funny one. So I hope you enjoy it. 

Joe, welcome to Beyond the Boardroom podcast. I'm really happy to have you here because out of all the apprentices, you kind of stand out ex apprentices because never have I ever or anyone seen a apprentice candidate who's also a safari guide. It just doesn't fit because aren't all the apprentice people supposed to be mean?

It's weird, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, well most of 

them. But like a safari guide? Yeah, 

it doesn't really add up. No, it doesn't add up. 

It doesn't add up. Yeah, thanks for having 

me on this show and hopefully we can dive into that in a bit more detail. Yes, 

thanks for coming on. 

Pleasure. 

We'll start with, if you could describe yourself in three words, what would those three words be and why?

Oh my gosh.  Positive,  enthusiastic and ambitious. I think that would probably be the three. 

Enthusiastic and ambitious. Yeah. Okay. 

I'd say so. Yeah. Ambitious or driven. One of them. I think one of them has to be in there. 

Okay. Okay. I said three.  

Three. So let's go for positive, enthusiastic.  I 

can see that. I can, I can definitely see that.

Okay, let's talk about the safari side first. You clearly love animals. Like, did you always love animals? So 

I was, I was lucky enough to grow up in the developing world. So I spent most of my childhood kind of hopping around these fantastic countries like Zimbabwe and Malaysia and Egypt. Why 

were you, why were you doing?

It was 

mainly my dad's job. So my, my mom's a doctor and she was working out in. Uganda at the time. My mom's side grew up in Zambia. Dad works as a venture capitalist. So completely different. Um, I guess that's, you can probably already tell us where I get my kind of business side from there. And then the kind of nature loving side from my mom.

I grew up in South Africa.  And I visited a lot of the countries as well, the nearby countries, so Zimbabwe is one of them. Which city did you live in? Was it Harare? In Harare. Yeah, 

in Harare. 

Listen, when I was there, never in my life have I seen spiders of that size. 

Oh, yeah, you love them though. You've got to love them.

No, you don't love them. 

I mean, I just looked up in the ceiling one day and it was about that big. It dropped on the ground and it started, boom!  

It's like the thing is so spiders. Yes. Our house. I don't know what it was. Our house in in Zim and Harare was like, I don't know if there's like a scorpion nest or something. 

It 

was infested with scorpions. You 

can die from that. There's a lot of, 

yeah, you can, you, well, there are two types of, this is like where my passion,  here we go. No, there's 

a 

day scorpion a day. Scorpionidae is fine, which luckily is what we had, so we've all been stung by them. And it's like a hot bee sting, really painful, but you won't die. 

Burithidae, if you get stung by them, sure. Yeah, is it 

hours? A couple of hours or days? No, 

not really. No, it, it, you can die from them. It's not fatal every single time. But for, if you're young, like when we were, if we got stung by a scorpion, Burithidae scorpion, when we were  Three years old. Yeah, it can be a matter of days.

It's just 

the way they put their tail. I mean like I know. Yeah.  They're just freaky. But I 

loved it. So to answer your question, I know we deviated a bit to answer your question. Yeah. My earliest memories are like  running around the African bush, barefoot and lovely. I've always been curious and around nature, close to it, close to it.

And I think when you're exposed to  a such.  A diversity of biomes from the African savannah to the Malaysian jungle to the Egyptian desert.  It's impossible not to fall in love with nature. Yeah, it is impossible. 

They say that once you've, you've, you've lived in Africa, you've got that magic of Africa within you.

That's it. There is something in there, isn't there? You'll never, it's like, it's so special. Yeah. 

I encourage anyone to be watching this to go, submerge 

yourself in it. But also as a kiddie, when you're so close, you know, because I mean, kids on these days on their phones, whatever, blah, blah, blah.  And they're indoors and stuff.

But when you're outside and you get to know like ants and what they do, and they become like your friends, but in a way they do, you're playing with different kinds of animals and insects and you're learning about them and you close them up like that bug and this bug and the birds and that you kind of, you then get really close and then you feel like you want to protect them, don't you?

And 

that's what I loved about guiding and learning about the bush is it just, it opens your eyes to.  Like I said, people think about conservation, they think of pandas, you know what, it's more than that, like the ants and the bugs and the beetles, that's, that's the exciting thing, that's what I get excited about.

Yeah, they're really cute, 

aren't they? There's so much to them. But not just the ones in the, in the, in Africa and in the bush, because like,  we'll get to this, but I also like, because of my love for animals as well, like you, in Africa, I've also started to discover the ones that are here. So the reason why I agree with you saying ambition,  as one of your points describes self is because In our pre podcast call, you said that you want to follow in David Attenborough's footsteps, I mean that's a massive thing to say.

Oh 

yeah, I'd love to try. You're gonna try. Yeah, well you 

want to, that's an ambition, so no one can say you're not an ambitious person. 

You 

100 percent are very ambitious and I think that would suit you because you've got, you like the whole TV side, right? Yeah, exactly, 

yeah, yeah. 

Not shy. And then you love animals, so why not?

Exactly. And I love education as well. I think when you look at conservation, one of the most powerful tools we have is educating people about nature. And  David Attenborough just does that so well. Yeah. And so that's what I'd love to do. 

Okay, so speaking of education, I mean, seriously, what do you actually study in zoology?

Like, just literally, what is it? 

Uh, so, obviously I studied zoology. at X10 Ethology at Oxford, which is like animal 

behaviour. 

It's not like you learn, this is a, this is a cow, this is a giraffe. 

This is how a cow behaves. Exactly. 

Um, it's, so you start, you start off and it's starts off broad, like any university degree, and then it goes narrow.

What do you mean 

broad? Like, these are the types of animal categories. Exactly. 

Yeah, exactly. So, like, our modules in first year were 

Crustaceans. Yeah. 

Oh, 100%. 100%. So, like, we had modules called Invertebrate Zoology and Vertebrate Zoology. So, like, these broad clades where you dive and learn about chordates, and you learn about arthropods.

Um, and then Where they 

have a, like, a backbone thing on Exactly. 

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.  But then you kind of specialize and you can go, you know, first you'll be broad, like sustainability, ecology. Yeah. And then as you progress, you kind of choose the one, the direction you want to go in. So I loved, you know, like physiology, learning about the body and hormones and things like that.

Um, and eventually specialized into behavior, like animal behavior was something I fell in love with. Yeah, but what 

do you learn in animal behavior? Like how does the lion behave when he's. 

I've always been curious about nature and I loved as a guy just sit, I could sit and watch like a troop of baboons or, or elephant for hours and just be like.  What are you,  what are you thinking right now? What, what is encouraging? I'll tell 

you a story. The baboons, they're like feisty little things. Oh yeah.

I was in a really nice resort in South Africa. But it's kind of like one of those really in touch with nature kind of resorts and basics stripped back.  And, um, I was outside on the balcony looking at the ocean, you know, very nice vibe. Sort of in my own world with my little child who was one years old.

She was eating a banana. And then I looked and there was a baboon bigger than a man. Yeah. Looking at me.  And then he started towards me and reached out to take the banana off my child. And on my instinct, I just literally took her and I  shoved her behind the doors and like sliding doors and he's coming towards me and I'm like, Oh, only just his hand, human hands, like honestly, the nails you could see it.

So human, it's crazy, and he was so strong, trying to open the sliding door, and I'm shouting for my husband, going,  Tell me how my husband runs, and both of us versus this baboon, and the baboon's sort of looking, and I'm like, Oh no, you don't, you're not eating my child 

today. A mother's instinct kicks in.

Yeah, you know 

what, my strength, I tell you.  We're animals too, you know, so like, yeah, come on. Baboon. Yeah. You know what I mean? Bring it on. You're not taking the banana and all the child. But apparently they go in, they go inside these homes, they raid the fridges, they know their stuff, man. 

Yeah. So what 

behavior is this like?

Yeah. Well, they're, they're scary as well. They're, they're canines are actually bigger than a lion. They're, they're, the male baboons are scary. I've also been scratched by a, a baboon. A baboon 

scratched you? 

Yeah. I've, I've had, I've been like bitten, scratched, stung by.  How does a baboon 

scratch you?  

I don't even know.

I was, I was super young, but it's actually very embarrassing. Like I've, I've been bitten by things, scratched by things, wild boars, monkeys, scorpions. And then in Egypt, I got,  it's actually so embarrassing. I don't know why I'm saying this. Say 

it.  

Um, so I've had like so many rabies jabs. I'm sorted for life.

Like just because of all the wild animals I've been. Scratch my, and then when we are in Egypt,  I was in like a pet shop, like the back streets of Cairo and playing with this little kitten like this, I could fit it in one hand. Oh, 

kitten. 

Um, and then the kitten bit me on the top of my finger. Ooh.  And uh, I fainted. 

You fainted. I was just so embarrassed. I remember, like, I remember looking at my finger and like watching the blood trickle.  And then, next thing I remember, I was waking up to like, fresh orange juice and stuff. 

Oh, wow. It was so 

embarrassing. Did you have 

antibiotic, though, after he bit you? 

I actually went and got another rabies jab, because I think the reason why I fainted is  as I was looking at this blood, like, my mom was talking to the pet shop owner, and the pet shop was like, yeah, I think, um  You should probably get him some rabies jabs, because we don't quite know.

And I was like, what? 

Yeah, you freaked out. Bang. Wow. Okay, so you have this sensitive side to blood. But no, because, um, so my dad was a veterinary scientist, but sort of like, that's the reason why he got asked to go from Poland to South Africa in 1981, right? So he, but he didn't, he worked on like vaccines, like Ebola type stuff.

Some of these big fridges and everything. But, um. He used to always say that if you, um, ever got bitten by a cat, like as in blood, that you should get an antibiotic because you can get sepsis from that and literally die because of the bacteria. Yeah. They're very unique to having this toxic bacteria in there.

Yeah, like 

lions, one of the Like, if you don't die of blood loss, it'll probably be an infection, it'll kill all the bacteria. Yeah, so 

the cats, they're very nice, but if you get bitten, so yeah, you probably were right to faint, actually.  Yeah, um, so I was gonna ask, what's the wildest thing that's ever happened?

The wildest experience? You know, when you've gone so far, you can either go and drive, like, you take the vehicle out, um, or you can go on foot. 

Trek.  Yeah, 

that's what I specialized in. So I 

brave, 

yeah, but I love it when you learn to be a guide, you qualify as Fugasa level. I wanted to take that further and get my trails qualification, which is where you do your advanced rifle handling.

You learn how to track how to trail. Um, that's the danger, because you're, you're in their, their environment, you know? 

Yes, their house. 

Yeah, it's their, it's their house, their rules, their neighborhood. So when you're in a vehicle, you feel very safe when you see a lion walking by. When you're on foot,  

it's 

a whole different story.

Yeah, um, so the wild experience, I've been charged by  elephant, by lion. By Buffalo. You've 

been charged by an elephant. 

Yeah. Yeah. How 

does that feel being 

You're  As you can imagine, it gets your heart 

How did you run away from 

Oh, you never run. You never run. Yeah, you never run. 

Okay. 

Um, except Okay, I'll tell you a story.

So, the goal And obviously, you want to avoid these situations. Yeah, yeah. You never want to be No. The whole purpose in, in learning how to trail and track is to be able to cope in a situation like that.  And it's so much fun. Like we, I went and camped in the Limpopo for three months straight. Every day we would track a new animal.

So it would be, you know, today we're finding lion. Find the spore. Track it. Find the pride. Approach the pride. Next day, elephant. Bum, bum, bum. And each day, I remember our trainers  They would want us to push the boundaries intentionally. So each animal would have like their zone of confidence, we call it, like where they're comfortable, they see you, but they're like, okay, he's fine there. 

If you go a bit closer, he's like, I don't want him to come closer. And then if you step further,  That's when it initiates the charge or the run. So you 

kind of deserve it though. Oh yeah. 

And you know, and like elephant, they're so that they're just so obvious with their emotions and if they're unhappy, they'll tell you, you know, they shake the head or they trumpet.

Yeah. Yeah. 

But yeah. So our trainers would intentionally get us to push those boundaries. So we knew how to deal with it.  And so we'd get to the point where, you know.  Based on their behavior and you're studying this line intensely  If I take another step here that thing's going to charge  And and then you'd be stood there and the trainer would be like one more step  And then you take one more step.

So who are 

you up against? Yeah, lion or? 

Lion, elephant. So, yeah, I was going to tell you a story. So I've been charged by both, but lions are quite easy to be honest, they're scaredy cats at the end of the day.  Elephant are really emotional. So you can tell if it's a mock charge, like they usually pull up five, 10 meters away from you. 

Um, but Buffalo.  They are another story. 

Okay. 

So probably, yeah, if I was to give you my wildest experience, we, um,  Actually, I'll give you one for Lion first. So, we were on trail, and this was only like day two or something of the training program. And  Super naive. I don't know what to do here. Trainer was leading the walk and we didn't even get out of camp.

We literally went around the corner and bumped into this female lioness. And I think we both just scared each other. But, um,  She just mock charged us again and again and again. Yeah. Well, she's a 

lioness, so Yeah. She's, she's not a scared cat like her husband lion. Yeah, 

exactly. Yeah. You know, you 

don't mess with the lions.

No way. 

Yeah. 

Um, but yeah, we are like, Hey, hey, like stop, stop. You know, bang the right shout about her. Yeah. A hundred percent. That's, that's what you do. You like display? Display dominance. Nature's a game of dominance. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Um, but she wasn't having any of it. She was mock charging. Mock charging. Um, and then what did it in the end is. 

My trainer put a bolt in the chamber. I think that  Noise scared her off. 

Okay, she's smart. 

Yeah, cuz it was like an artificial, you know She's like what's that and then run 

But yeah, 

so the Buffalo one, sorry, I let me know if you want to move on because I could just talk forever 

But 

yeah, this was also during training.

And the thing about buffalo is they show no emotion. This is why they're hard 

to read. They're 

so hard to read and they actually cause the most deaths in Africa when you're on safari. Um, but yeah, we were tracking this one buffalo.  We were actually tracking the herd, and then the older bulls usually fall behind the herd. 

Uh, and they're the dangerous ones because they're on their own. And anyway, we come across this one and we basically get too close to it.  It sees we're coming. And all I remember it's doing is like, all they do is like this, like they look at you and then they're like, like in a bovine way, like curious.

And they take one step  and 

then 

they just come. And I remember seeing this thing coming like this and then 

Joe 

from the 

apprentice. 

Yeah, 

get it. 

I'm coming from. And the golden rule is don't run. But with Buffalo, 

no, no, no. 

Run. And that's what my trainer did. He literally ran. And before I knew it, I was like, oh, we're running and we ran and the backup trails guide actually fell and she dropped her rifle and it was just hectic.

And I remember looking back and seeing this thing coming, came around the corner, went around a tree and eventually it went off. But um,  but yeah, that's probably, that's probably the wildest story. 

Yeah. That's why you're called Jungle Joe.  

I guess so. 

Do you like that name? 

Uh, I think so. I don't know where that originated, but  I think, yeah.

Because I 

was going to ask what if you, you were quoted as saying you face worse than Lord Sugar. I believe you now. Yeah, the buffalo, but isn't a hippo, hippos the most dangerous and feisty and unpredictable. I mean, they also in the water, you only see the little ears and they're like, 

exactly. Yeah. 

Charge for you.

Yeah. Aggressive. And they're fast as well. Exactly. 

Yeah. Yeah. They, yeah, I think they cause the most deaths just because, um,  they're territorial and if you're by the riverside, you know, the locals would be fishing or something. Um, and then, yeah, they'll. They'll chomp 

you. But also on a more serious note, because you said like,  obviously in the car you feel safer, but I mean, I've heard stories of people, yeah, being trampled in cars, squashed and stuff by elephants, getting too close and things like that.

And it's, I'm never competing. I always like, yeah, you're in their environment. So it's like, that's their world and you kind of have to be respectful. 

You have to be respectful. You don't want to get into those situations, but like you said. Yeah, like one of the quotes was, I've faced worse than, what was it? 

Lord Sugar, yeah. 

Yeah, so the, the reason behind that is I feel like these days,  no one experiences fear.  Like a real fear, like primitive, raw fear. We don't have it, you know. You might be stressed out if you miss your train. But, um, but very rarely these days you have that experience. So for me,  

That raw fear.

Yeah. I get it. Like business is a game, 

money is a game. You'll win it, you'll lose it, and the next day you'll alive. He's not a scary watch a game in your life, you know? Ah, he's all right. He's alright. He's a teddy bear. . 

He's fine. He's fine. So why did you apply to Apprentice? 

Um, I've watched it for years.

Mm-hmm . With my family. Um, and I thought, ah, 

why not? 

Yeah. I thought why not Chuck in an application? I think there were 110,000 applicants. There's 

loads of a 

ridiculous so many. So I submitted this video. Uh, application and then forgot about it and then I was actually on horseback in, in the Karika River, like on safari when they rang me and they're like,  it's the BBC here.

We want to chat to you about The Apprentice. I was like,  is this a, yeah, it's a joke. Um, 

Overall was the. Experience on The Apprentice as intense as it looks, or how did you find it? 

Oh, it more so. I'd say more, it's more intense than you see on TV for sure.  Holy crumbs. Yeah, so,  like for The Boardroom for example.

Is what, like a 20 minute segment or something, or per episode. Whereas in reality, you're in there for like four hours. 

Oh, it's like more sometime more. Yeah, more four. It's a whole day. Like at least thrashing it out. It's a day. Yeah.  

But yeah, you have a boardroom day, don't you? Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. 

Especially if you lose, you obviously come back.

Oh yeah. 

Um, and then each day is like, you know, you're working  six days a week, 18 hour days. Yeah. You're not 

eating properly. 

Oh, I think that's intentional. Yeah, you're not Of 

course it is. 

You're just, you're fueled on like,  caffeine, sugar.  Adrenaline.  Um, 

you've got a health issue. That's a problem. 

You're that and that's what I struggled with as well.

Just a lot of sugar. 

I couldn't cope without the food and sleep like that. That I can't do that. Well, but I think I've got a very high metabolism. I don't know about me too. Yeah. All the time. A 

hundred percent. 

You call yourself the James Bond of business. Are you actually the?  Really? No, no 

offense. I think that's one of the things they wanted me to. 

So you don't really believe? 

No, no, no, no, no, 

no, no, 

no. I'll tell you the story behind that. So when you apply, you have to submit a video. 

Yeah. 

And I told you I decided to apply the day before I flew out to South Africa. 

Okay. 

So when I landed in South Africa, I thought, why not? I'll apply. And when I was getting the boat into the lodge I was working at, I thought, this is a better time than any.

So I gave my friend my phone to my colleague and she said, just film me getting out of the boat. It was the first thing that came to my mind. I was like, I'm Joe Phillips. I'm the James Bond of the business world. I regret saying that. No, no, you got it. Use it. 

You got it.  You've got to be good on camera.

You've got to give them what you've got. You've got to be a character. 

I think that's what they want. To stand out or 

it ain't going to happen. How has your life changed since The Apprentice? It's been like a year now. Yeah. A good year. So how has it been? Have you enjoyed it? Do you feel famous? Do you not feel famous? 

Um,  I absolutely loved it. Like, I feel privileged to have I've had the opportunity to go on the show. It's helped the business, but not, not as much as I thought kind 

of on your own when you get out. Yeah. 

Yeah. It's not like a big, yeah. The exposure is great. Like, so for my, most of my sales come through my retailers, like I wholesale to them, but I do have an e commerce section that equates like 20 percent of my revenue.

But when you go on, you're fired. You know, the show.  After The Apprentice, they give you like one sentence where you can plug your business. So, so what's the business? And I remember I said something, I was like, I run a sustainable, uh, lip care company called Surfbarm. 

Yeah. 

And I remember watching it back with my phone on the side of the thing.

And I was, I said that one sentence and. Like, 10 seconds later my phone, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, like, all these sales coming in. It was ridiculous. Oh, are you doing 

that now still? You're doing that? Yeah, yeah. In terms of the fame and stuff, do you feel famous, yes, no?

Feel a bit? 

Um, it definitely drops off. So, like, when the show comes out, it's mad. And you go from zero to a hundred. Yeah. People recognize you and take pictures everywhere  and then it sort of drops off and people, yeah, people go, which is, which is obvious, um, but it starts off with people saying like You know, in the street, you're Joe from The Apprentice.

And then it goes to, you're that guy from The Apprentice. 

Yeah, to the other guy. And then it 

goes, and then now it's like Yeah, you 

gotta make the effort to stay relevant, but also, if you do stay on these platforms, you'll find that actually you're left with at the end of it, because I mean, I was in 2016. I mean, we're talking about A while now.

Mm-hmm . But you're left with sort of like a, a community that they, they just love what you're doing. Yeah. Interested in you and you're left because once you've been on tv, you're in, you're sort of entertainment. Mm. Mm-hmm . That's what you are, you're, you're a source of entertainment. You know, the board, they look at what's, what's she doing, what's, what's Joe doing today?

What's he posted? It's just like TV for them. So, so you're left with quite a dedicated, loyal fan base and they stay with you. Like if, if, if it's, I mean, if you, if you put the efforts in, you can be Yeah, definitely. But obviously you get some. 

Weird. Oh my god.  Can we talk about the weirdos? 

Yeah, what's the weirdest weirdo thing fan type thing that's happened?

Come on, say it. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, Matt, you tell me yours. You go, you go first.  

Um.  

Okay, I'll go first. Okay, yeah, thank you. Okay, I'll say, there's, what I Obviously,  like, indecent things being sent is like, I don't like, well obviously, okay, that's, but, um, what's this thing with feet? 

Yes! Mine was about feet as well!

Why? What's your thing? What is 

this? No, no, I think feet is, is for me the weird, I think, I find that disgusting. It's, it's, yeah. Like, obviously, and the images of And it's a thing, isn't it? Like, 

a lot of people  I've had a lot of messages, even um, I did a, I did a half mile Ironman last weekend and posted a couple pictures of, of that.

Yeah. 

Um, and some of the messages I got off the back of that were,  Yeah. 

About your feet? 

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of them are feet related. Yeah, yeah.  

No, that's completely creepy. So do you have like, wild, mad fans messaging? Feet 

fans, yeah. Yeah, definitely. 

So yeah, you love your fitness, don't you? You're very into, um, so what's like, do you do, like, follow any fads?

Do you do the cold plunging? Do you do like, keto? Do you do what, like, obsession with the guts? Like, what's your thing? Tell me. Um, 

yeah. Um,  I love fitness. I love all sports, a massive rugby player. I love football, cricket, tennis, golf, any sort of sport I love, but I don't follow any fads actually. 

You don't cold plunge or anything like this?

No, I don't. I actually, to be honest with you, it annoys me when I see it on Instagram. It's just another, it's like a phase. It's like people do it. to post it on Instagram type thing. So 

do you, do you, like, how many hours of sport do you do a day? Do you dedicate time a day to do sport? Every day, seven days, six days?

I've probably six days a week. Six days a week, you probably 

plan it. Or 

seven, six, seven. Yeah. I had a, it depends on what training program I'm going through, but  it'll usually be  Like, I recently did a half Ironman, so the training for that is pretty intense. So what 

does that entail? Tell me, half Ironman, 

so So triathlon, so it's swim, bike, run.

Yep, 

so how many K's? 

So it, the half, the half is 2K swim. 

It's quite difficult, yeah. It's quite, so the swim's hard, yeah. Um, 

90K bike. 

Yep.  

A half marathon, so 21k. And then 

21k running? Oh gosh. Yeah. Are you a good runner?  

Um, I wouldn't say I'm a natural runner. No. Okay, you don't 

belong to like an athletics club or like 

No, no, no.

I've more been like a rugby player, so Which isn't really built for like long distance running. 

No, but like to elevate your running you should join like some sort of, you know. Yeah, yeah. You can do your intervals. 

Yeah, and I did that. So like my training would be for triathlon, um,  In the mornings I usually, I'm an early riser anyway, so I get up at like half five or something.

Go do a couple hours in the gym before work at lunchtime. I'll go for like a walk just a couple of hours 

or like two hours an hour. Yeah, 

hour and a half. Two hours in the gym. That's 

in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Lunch. 

Lunch. I get an hour to two and I'm so like and a 

half.  

That was just, that's just because you were 

training for this big event as well.

Yeah, and then 

the evenings would be my, uh, like my endurance. So I'd go either for a bike or run, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I 

think swimming's quite tiring, but it's such a nice sport, working everything, isn't it? Yeah, 

it's so tiring. 

But it's exhausting. 

Yeah, I remember doing it for the first time.  Yeah, I'm going to do an Ironman, which is like, that's like 6k and I did one length of this hundred meter pool.

I was like, I can't do this. Yeah, especially when you're starting. Especially when you, I 

mean, but probably you probably swam a lot as a kid or not. Did you do? 

I used to, and I actually worked as a swim coach in, in Zim, um, for the school kids there.  But that was, the coach used to just, the head coach used to just  teach him to swim.

These kids would be crying, like, I don't want to swim. 

Yeah, it's so scary. It's so scary when you're starting out. Yeah, 

but he would get, his tactic would be like, 

Chuck him. 

Chuck him in. They would be like, grabbing onto the end of the pool. And he'd be like, let go of the side. Let go.  If I don't want to, and then he would let go or I'll get Joe to take you to the deep end.

Oh, and 

he would get me to take these kids and just drop them in the deep end. 

How horrible. 

Yeah, but they learned to swim quickly.  

They didn't have a choice.  

Literally.  I didn't 

have a choice. No, my dad, my dad did that to 

me. 

I remember I trusted him. I trusted him. And then he took me into the deep end. And I was like, Dad also nice.

And he's just let go. He's pushing me. I'm going dad. And he's like,  he's moving away. And I'm 

like, yeah, 

daddy, daddy. But yeah, it's scary. But like in South Africa, I remember growing up in pools, like, that's what you do in the summer, you spend your whole entire day in 

a pool and 

it's just so nice, it's like just, you know,  

sometimes 

as an adult now when I get in the pool and I'm in, like, you know, on holiday or whatever, and I feel like, oh yeah,  childhood, you know, this is like, you're a good swimmer because you've swum so much in your life, you're confident in the water, don't  mind that, but yeah, I mean, so on this thing, remember I mentioned that like,  In South Africa, obviously I got to know all the animals and, you know, and obviously Zimbabwe and all these countries and  you kind of get to know those kind of insects and those kind of birds and blah, blah, blah.

And then when I got here, I just like my one thing I thought, When I buy a house, I'm going to make sure it has the biggest garden ever so that I can have like my own little wildlife nature reserve in there, yeah? So like make a massive, you know, in COVID I dug up the, I got really frustrated so I dug a pond single handedly.

But like now I've improved it, you know, so we've had time and I've made a massive, like a lake. Have you got fish 

in there?  But 

I got natural ones. I don't want to do this whole goldfish thing. So I got the ones that are in the children's. I live in the children's. Okay. Yeah. So I got the ones that are naturally in streams.

That occur next to everything else. So I want the newts and all of that. So, you know, you get to know these guys as well. And you think, shame, because, you know, like It's almost like everyone thinks of Sephora like that's the place of conservation. But what about the creatures in the UK? You know, you've got all these cute little, and like the great crested newt, the one with a little thing above his, you'll know.

So like those guys, and they, you know, they, they, in day, like, you know, they're threatened. So you've got to look after them. And people fill up their ponds, obviously, because of safety and stuff again, even though you can get a cover and it's fine, like, you know, a net thing. Um, but you sort of get to know these guys, and then you want to protect them as well.

And like the birds and all of that, and the little. animals here. So 

definitely. 

Yeah. I mean, do you, what, where do you live at the moment? And do you, have you got to know the creatures here? What do you think about them? What's like, nah, I care about the buffaloes.  

No, I care about all creatures and obviously  big or small, they all play a part in the ecosystem they live in.

Um,  so I do love it, but I've never like to be. Honestly, I've never had the,  the same passion as I have for African wildlife. Yeah. Um, I think cause I just grew up there and I find it thrilling and I love it. Um,  so in terms of like.  Indulging in nature here. It's, it was actually more about the marine life.

Cause I, I studied in Exeter, but Falmouth, you know, on the coast. So my uni experience was very much like  fishing and surfing and you'd be bombing out back in the seal would just come pop up. 

Yeah. That's so cool. They're like dogs, the seals. 

They're awesome. And that's actually how, that's how my. business Surfbomb started was because I set up this business at university supplying merchandise and whatnot to societies and stuff.

Um, but the lip balm was, you know, we'd go on surfs. Um, and I remember seeing the high tide mark just littered with Plastic. Oh God. Plastic. And I, I hated it. It's, I just kills you, doesn't it? It's just the 

saddest thing. 

Um, and loads of plastic chapsticks, you know, everyone used lip balm, but like, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that. 

Yeah. The cheap thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

And I remember thinking like, why it does that have to be plastic? So that's how like sustainable lip care started. Yeah. 

Just back to the conservation stuff. Yeah.  I was just, just thought of something. I think, you know, like the whole David Attenborough thing and he did, I mean, did he do stuff in the UK?

I think he did do UK stuff in that as well. Yeah, I think it would be good for you to, to learn about the UK wildlife. I think you've got, you've got that. I understand the passion for Africa. I definitely do that. But also I think it's so nice for people to learn about what's sort of in front of them and appreciate that and look after it.

And 

you know, when you open 

up that world, it becomes, you realise. That's what I'm, like, 

you don't realise that. Some, some people that live in the city, they, they never experience nature. 

No. 

But it's actually on their doorstep. Yeah. You know, they can find it. Um, so it's actually, I was working with the BBC recently about doing a podcast for kids.

Yeah. About nature, and it's like, it's basically nature on your doorstep. So no matter where you are, you can,  um  Yeah, you can experience and find nature, even if it's just in your back garden. 

Yeah. 

Um, so that's what I 

think that that's, that's really cool because it's, it's developing that as a kid to get close to it, but then you care about the creatures more.

Whereas if you,  and then I always go back to this horrible story. I used to have an ex boyfriend once. Okay. And when we were in Seville, I felt sorry for donkey because the donkey was like very hot and like they kept putting people on and the donkey had to walk and I'm talking about 45 degree heat and I was just like thinking that's cruel.

Like, just stop now. It's enough. I mean, I know that they sort of grow, the animals have evolved in that environment, but to have these big tourists and, and I felt really sorry. And then I went up to, to the guys with the donkey and I was like, listen, I'm going to give you this money. I want the donkey to set out the next few rides and give it water and put in the shade.

And this ex boyfriend got really mad at me. He's like, what are you doing, man? He's like, what are you doing? Just let them do their animal.  I was like, You're an animal. Yeah, you're an animal because but he never grew up with that  Close to animals. That's what I'm saying. If you don't  if they're not like your friends the animals and you don't sort of form it 

Yeah 

care for them, then you'll never care about them.

It's so Yeah, and that's 

how you're right like Education as kids, if you can expose them to that as kids, I feel like when they're older and you say, like, don't litter or don't use plastic stuff, they'll understand why and the reason behind it. Plastic thing 

kills me. Yeah, yeah, on our, yeah, on our shores.

It's like, I'm always picking up litter. Like, I irritate my family when we go for walks. I'm like, 

I just can't since 

I forget, like, no one's going to pick it up after you. Yeah, terrible. No, um, but the other just one, one last topic on like, because if you do get to know like the UK wildlife more intimately, and it means because I live in the countryside now, and I've sort of, um, and I go for these walks through farmers fields a lot with my dog and stuff.

And then, um, and I watch the wildlife and I see all these little butterflies and moths and everything. And you can see them feeding on the little strips, the little alleyways we can walk. Yeah. And then the field is just Barren. Oh, really? Because it's been sprayed. Yeah. With insecticide. Mm-hmm . Poison and it's dead and sort of, you think, and it's like hectares, like basically all the, you know, and then you've just got these little strips.

Yeah. And then it's beautiful. And in these little strips you can hear the little crickets. Oh. And you can see the butterflies. And then there's, the bees will come and it's like, and the little bird will come and have a little berry off something. because that's alive. So you don't need the insecticides.

Like why not roll that? I mean, I know it's more expensive, but maybe there's ways to work things out, you know? 

Yeah. I remember even learning in like a level geography or whatever it was. I remember learning how important hedgerows are in the UK because like you fly over the UK and you can see the whole countryside is scattered by.

Fields, with insecticides and whatnot, and then bordering it are the hedgerows. 

That's where it is. 

And those are the corridors that have your And also gardens, and also 

gardens, so whoever has a garden or even a balcony, like if they look after that and stop spraying it with rubbish that you don't need and just sort of let it be, then those are the little havens, those are little nature places for these guys.

So what's next for you?  

Um, 

Mini David Attenborough.  

Yeah. I guess, um, Oh, man. My personality's always been split down the middle. Like, I love nature, conservation, and the other side I love business. In a ideal world, I'd love to combine both and by doing something like setting up my own safari lodge or something like that, so I can contribute to conservation and nature but also run a business, you know? 

Mm.  

But for the more immediate future, I'm loving my job at the moment, um, at the GDS group. Uh, and then, and also my business, I love doing that on the side.  Um, in terms of the nature  side of things.  I might, and I can't talk too much about this, but I've been asked to go on a show that's more nature 

orientated.

Ah, so you can't tell us more about it, 

but I was going 

to ask you, Love Island? Love Island? No, no, no. There was something saying that.  

No, I know they were asking. But 

there's another show? Maybe. 

Yeah, potentially. Okay, so basically watch 

this space.  

We'll see. We'll see. We'll see if it happens. But um, If it does, it'll be fantastic.

Well, Jo, it's been great. 

It's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having me. 

Thanks for coming on. 

Pleasure.