From Spat On to CEO: The Ultimate Underdog Story

🔥 Beyond The Boardroom with Aleksandra King – Samuel Brooksworth: The Apprentice, Business & Breaking Barriers

What really happens behind the scenes on The Apprentice? And how does the experience shape your future—especially when you refuse to play the reality TV game?

Samuel Brooksworth joins me for a brutally honest conversation about the show, success, and the reality of being a Black entrepreneur in business. Since The Apprentice, Samuel has gone on to appear in GQ, Forbes, and The Times, and is now the CEO of Remoteli, a game-changing company that’s redefining employment opportunities in Africa.

In this episode, we dive into:
 💼 The Apprentice reality check – What the cameras don’t show, producer interference, and why Samuel refused to be anything but himself
🌍 Building a business with purpose – How he turned the pandemic into an opportunity and scaled Remoteli into a global brand
🧠 Resilience & mindset – Dealing with rejection, discrimination, and why perseverance is the key to success
📢 Black men in business – The glass ceiling, media stereotypes, and the struggle for equal opportunities
👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Work-life balance – Running a business while being present for family and breaking outdated success stereotypes

And, of course, we answer the big question: Did Lord Sugar miss out on backing a future business powerhouse? 🤔

🚀 This episode is packed with powerful insights, hard truths, and an inspiring story of ambition, self-belief, and making an impact where it truly matters.

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📲 Follow Aleksandra King:
Instagram → https://instagram.com/king.aleksandra
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LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/aleksandraking
Website → https://aleksandraking.com

📩 For Business Inquiries & Collaborations:
Email me at aleksandra@aleksandraking.com

🔊 Listen now—you won’t want to miss this one!

📢 The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of Aleksandra King, the podcast, or its producers. This podcast is for entertainment only.

The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of Aleksandra King, the podcast, or its producers. This podcast is for entertainment only.

Transcript

In this episode, I'm interviewing Samuel Brooksworth. Samuel and I get into everything about Apprentice, right? The good, bad, and the ugly. He talks about what the Apprentice has taught him about black men in business. It's really one you don't want to miss. Samuel has literally featured in GQ, in Forbes, in the Times.

He is a proper successful business entrepreneur. You've got to tune in and listen to this one. 

Samuel,  I'm really happy to have you here today.  On The Apprentice, when I met you in 2016, you were one of the more sane  and credible  candidates, if I dare say so. I mean, there are, obviously there are good candidates on there. I think everyone that goes on there is good, but I think you were one of the stronger ones.

I think that everyone goes in there with different agendas, everyone goes on there with different intents, how they want to perceive them, how they want to be perceived, how they want to be portrayed. So I think that plays on their minds as to how they act. And you find that after, a lot of them are nothing like how they portrayed themselves to be.

Or because they had an idea of how they wanted to  be perceived out in the public or an opportunity to be in the spotlight. They come across a certain way, which doesn't always do them credit. But um, I found that once we kind of broke down the walls over the weeks. They were all kind of sane, I think that's just  how they, how they portrayed themselves in that moment.

Sometimes it was intense, but I think you were pretty much, and you still are because I've seen you at like networking events and stuff like that. I think what we saw on TV with you, like just calm, controlled, focused, you are that person and you weren't acting. I've never really cared about fame. I've always grown up as a Purpose driven person.

So my understanding of what I was taught to believe growing up is that if you believe in something and you do something for a reason,  everything else will follow. What I liked about you is that you were like, once you saw that you were like, yeah, no, I'm not doing this. And you walked to get onto the show.

Understandably, knowing TV, you need to come across a certain way for them to even consider you and select you. So I think the way I potentially came across in the interview stages, and the way I was in the show,  Producers kept pulling me to a side, Are you not going to talk? Are you not going to come across this way?

Are you not going to say this? And they wanted me to be that arrogant, brash salesperson that was just rubbing people out the wrong way. That's actually not me. So there are moments of that as a salesperson where you will show that kind of like, that, that, that, that, that zeal, that kind of character. But that's not me.

In general, I'm quite a chilled and quiet person. So I think that really really frustrated them. It got to a point where I pulled aside for a few occasions where they're like, are you not going to do this thing? It is TV, so to be fair, I understand that they're making entertainment. But if you're like  Also a credible business person, you're in the corporate world and it's formal and you know, and how you come across the, the professionalism and that it's important, then that's going to become an issue because you don't want to be portrayed in a certain way and being really silly and  you're not able to do when you know you can, and then you see things that would make you look like that because you want to protect your brand and then you know that your brand is at risk actually of being  You know, you toyed with publicly and that will affect your professional life because some people's careers have tanked. 

Because of this, because they've come across so badly. People don't realise how demanding, like, the, the, the no TVs,  the no music, the no reading factual books, the waking up at random times in the morning, not eating properly, not being able to talk. Not eating, I couldn't. It was difficult, not being able to talk when the cameras weren't rolling, being in silence.

Um, just being dragged around from location to location without no real idea as to where you were and why you'd been taken to certain places. It's a lot mentally, which people don't realise.  It all plays into great tv but not actually realistic and there's a lot of  Do's and don'ts that you can and can't do on the show as you're aware Um, so a lot of people come across as stupid and then people think it's their ideas That are presented when they're actually given options.

So let's go back a little bit. Let's go back to your childhood Childhood was really really chilled. I really can't grown up. So we I moved from london  Straight to berry and berry is like a small Town at the outskirts of Manchester, going to a high school at that age, where there weren't many black kids in the school.

Um, a lot of the kids were very ignorant with their perspectives of what they expected from black people. Yeah, I remember the first day of school. I went to the playground and the holes were Basically, the whole school gathered around my twin brother and I, and they wanted us to rap because they thought we were Dizzee Rascal's cousins and we're like, whoa. 

There's only so much the schools can do. You know, it's weird, isn't it? A lot of it falls to the parents and the education that the parents give to them in their homes and their understanding of Britain and their understanding of the history of Britain. Yeah, and again, and if the parents have been in one place in one thing and they only know that thing, they're not open to the world.

They're not, they're sort of living in their narrow, and it's very narrow minded.  It's just not really stretched in the way it should be. But, um, I just feel as though Britain is changing, but not in a positive way, mainly due to the mindset and, uh, non acceptance of other cultures and, um, different races and different, um,  systems, but, um, I'm, I'm not a politician.

So that's, that's not an answer for me to, to, to, to, to resolve your, your view and, and, you know, you see things in the way that you've seen that actually, no, you know what, so I've been working throughout my school and that, so I did like, um, 16, I worked for Marks and Spencers, which was a really good experience at the street fundraising, um, during uni as well, just so I could really, um, I loved sales, but I wanted to really understand what it would be like to sell in different regions.

different areas of the country, how objections people would have, how we could overcome them. And I really honed my skills, self skills from talking to different people in different walks of life on the streets of London. You were putting yourself out there. Had to, I was spat out, I was, I was, I was chased out.

People trying to, you were spattered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did you deal with this?  I never allowed that moment to ruin my day.  And it was difficult, but I knew that in that moment, in that moment, something's happened. There's another eight hours left of the working day. Why would I allow that 10 seconds to run my eight hours?

And it's something I just constantly had to, and I'm happy I went through that street fundraising experience. Was it really training me for that? So when I'd go into that call center roles or sales roles or shop floor, selling cars, selling forklift trucks, whatever I'd sell, because of that experience, it has helped me.

I never allowed a moment. Okay, but that, okay, someone spits at you.  How? How do you control yourself? My dad always used to tell me, whenever you're in situations like that, put yourself in other person's shoes. So growing up I was, I think during my early teens I was a very, very, I got to a point where I became very, I mean not angry, but I had a lot of  energy and I knew I could physically dominate a lot of people.

So I was um, not scared of things, I was very,  And I'd always get into situations where my dad would be like, Listen, in that situation where you've got annoyed at somebody, put yourself in their shoes. So let's say we're having a discussion and you've got really angry and you've tried to attack me or whatever's happened.

My dad would say to me, Hey, cool, let's just take that isolated situation and think about it logically. Maybe she had a really frustrating day. Maybe she was annoyed because at home, we don't know what she's encountering with her parents. Maybe her boyfriend, maybe her husband. You don't know what's happened in her life.

Maybe she's being abused. So she just wants to take her frustration out on somebody else. Put yourself in a person's shoes and think of all the situations they can encounter as to why they'd react the way they'd react. The moment you do that and you have empathy in situations like that, you'll always react differently.

Yeah, it's wiser. Yeah, well. Than trying it.  I'm trying to find someone in the streets of London. It's a difficult one. Yeah.  Okay, so you are now the CEO of Remotely. Yes. How did this happen? Yeah, so, um, during the pandemic, um.  I was an account director at the Guardian, and I noticed a lot of businesses were massively struggling to grow their businesses, were encountering a lot of difficulties, especially during that period. 

Um, fortunately, unfortunately, I was then furloughed for a period of time, so it gave me a lot of time to think after the initial discussions with organizations and the things they were encountering and what they were kind of going through, and I thought to myself, how can I support or help a lot of these businesses?

That are struggling so massively during this really, really difficult period.  Um, coincidentally, while, um, along that, my wife and I used to travel to Ghana, which is our, um, our home country.  Every year. And every year I'd go to Ghana, I would see that there were young people who were overly skilled and overly competent, but they, they were never granted opportunities.

And now as horrific as COVID was in the world, at times I like to call it a great equalizer. Um, it leveled the playing field for a lot of individuals in different parts of the world who couldn't gain opportunities, but were able to gain them because the opportunities were opened up to everyone across the world.

So I thought to myself that eureka moment when I was walking up and down my living room, why not?  Why not match these two opportunities? Why not get these organizations who are struggling to find the right people, competent and skilled individuals in the UK? Why not match them individuals in Ghana who can do the roles really well?

And as everyone's working online.  Why can't they do it? That's a proper entrepreneur right there. Like, you know, something, opportunities and disaster going on. But come on, it's, you know, and in a tough moment as well for you, you've been, sort of, everyone's down. What I had as a concept and an idea, yes it was challenging, it was difficult going to a country I was not born in.

Um, I, I never lived fully understood the language understand the language can speak it but living in a country where you go back yeah like i don't understand the culture the minds of the people how they grew up what they experienced oh my goodness but you probably needed that injection back to really you know submerge and understand yeah yeah it was a lot um Luckily we had a good team of individuals.

We hired really good people. We, we, we were very blessed and very, some will say lucky, um, with opportunities that came our way. And from there it just grew and grew and grew. And now it's become, um, a recognizable, well recognizable global brand in the industry that we are in. And hopefully this, well, it's more than recognizable.

You've appeared on Forbes,  Jake here. Yeah. Yeah. You guys have won awards. It's more than recognizable. So you're doing really well. So you're flying. So what is the goal?  The goal is to ensure that we hire a million plus people in the continent of Africa. Um, that is the long term goal. Continent of Africa.

Yes, yes, that's the goal. Um,  we want to stop brain drain from Africa. So the best talent from leaving our continent, Africa can't grow as a continent if the best people in the continent are constantly trying to leave to go to Europe, or go to America, or go elsewhere.  Because then, who's going to develop the content?

Yeah, you want the countries to be building themselves up. Exactly, and the only way that can happen is if the best talent is kept in Africa, you need to give them the best opportunities, then they won't want to leave. Who wants to leave their hometown or home country to go abroad if the opportunities are there where they are?

That's a weird aims to bring them opportunities so they can earn more, increase the GDP of every country we're in, in doing so increasing average wages, increasing living standards, eradicating poverty, gaining more opportunities for individuals, paying more, putting more money to economies that weren't there before, helping governments, helping everybody so everyone's content to flourish and grow the continent.

I can see how Having an objective like that is just so much more interesting and emotionally drawing. If you chase something with a passion, you chase something that makes impact, everything else will follow. Do you think Lord Sugar is kicking himself? Because he should be looking at something like this and going, well  It's embarrassing, isn't it?

I doubt he even knows it exists. I don't know. Yeah, that's also a problem. That's also a problem. No, no, no, no.  You know what? He's um Well, he missed out, didn't he? The Speak Lesbian. Um, you know what? When I went on to the show Or did he? Or are you better off? Yeah. When I went on to the show, my aim was to never win it.

That was always my thing, which I always discussed. For me, it was just a platform.  Interesting. My mum used to say to me, you can be the greatest preacher in the world, you can be the greatest salesperson in the world, you can be the greatest whatever it is in the world, if you don't have a platform. Nobody who the message and nobody will see who you are.

Yeah. So for me, the reason I'm eternally grateful to the show. Yeah, it's a good platform. The platform it afforded me. I couldn't have got anywhere else at that time in my life. So, um, it was great for me. And obviously he's gone on to do extraordinary things in his business career. And he's gone on to work with different entrepreneurs.

It probably would have been a mismatch at the time. And yeah, based off where I was. I don't see it happening. I've seen some of your LinkedIn posts. And there's one, for example, where you bring the kids in to work and there's all, it's like a nice vibe and everything that you wouldn't, that probably wouldn't work. 

Let's be clear.  Okay. So, so, so you decided to apply, um, because you wanted this platform and your, um,  your sales pitch was that,  you know, you have a God given gift to sell. The funny thing is I didn't actually apply for the show. My wife did. To disgrace myself in front of the country, I am good. But I, I did know, it's not an arrogant thing, I knew I'd get picked for that show once I went through the process.

Which, I ended up getting picked, and um,  From there, it just kind of went, went upwards, so, yeah. When you know, you know it, you feel that, that confidence, and you absolutely need it. To, to, to get ahead of all those people. It's, it's the toughest interview you could ever have in your life. Honestly, it was one of the best experiences of my life.

Only because. I, it showed me, um, I think that if put up in very, very difficult situations, situations and right individuals that I didn't, I wouldn't ever on a day to day basis be with in the real world. That'd be fine. And I think you only know the measure of your character until you're put in the most.

Difficult situations I've seen in business in working life when Managers or directors are screaming at teams because something's happened and how people throw people under the bus how people react No matter how pressured the situation They remained The same and that's what it showed me about myself that no matter what people do to me on this process  I would never bend or bow to producers, to um Lord Sugarcane and show the other side to me I'm going to be me if you like it.

I'm going to be my true authentic self You wrote an article for the Guardian and you titled it  My time on The Apprentice taught me a lot about black men in business. Yeah. There has always hysterically been a narrative painted of black men and the perception of black men. And you see that play out when you go into certain areas, when you walk through certain streets at certain times, how people react to you, how people perceive you, what people will think of you before you've even opened your mouth.

And, um, I think that that narrative, especially played through media, is very powerful. If I say to you now, name three. Three prominent Asian businesspersons, you probably name them. Name three prominent Caucasian businessmen, you could name them. Name three prominent Black businessmen, you'd probably struggle.

And it's, it's simply because opportunities aren't being granted to a lot of Black males, and females, who I do think it is hard for Black females to actually break through the glass ceiling. As a Black male, I do feel as though there is, there, there, there is, there is a very Thick glass ceiling, that's what's a lot of them breaking through.

And you'll see a lot of black males who  for 10, 20 years, you look through their LinkedIn's or look through their experiences. The only ever sales executives, they're never allowed to progress. And when you speak to them and speak to them, it's never that they're not competent or they're not good enough.

They're just not granted opportunities. Now there are different reasons for that. If you look at management structures and teams, which is why I would emphasize on, if you're a leader in a business, A lot of it doesn't always necessarily come down to racism. Where this is hindering a lot of black males is that they're not being able to grow in organizations.

So if you're a black male, you're not growing an organization and you want to set up a business. When you do eventually set up your business, you're setting up your business from very limited knowledge because then you've never had any real leadership experience. management experience growing understanding of all of growing a business at a top level so how can your business thrive at that level if you've never managed at that level so then it's stopping so many black businessmen from progressing and growing because they've never had experience even growing corporate organizations and that's what articles we speaking on the Opportunities the lack of opportunities and even when you look at  diversity pay gap reports across different organizations There's a disparity in regards to what black people are paid in regards to Caucasians doing the same jobs And when they're treated the complaints that it's been happening for decades from when my Dad first came to the UK and he's complaints about working workplaces up until now and  Things are changing things are getting better as the years do go on But it has stopped a lot of black males from progressing and growing when you have a truly diverse organization whether it's from a disability perspective whether it's from a race perspective wherever it may be it allows you to Open up the mindsets of the people in the business to better serve  Different and bigger groups and, um, that's where I do feel as though, um,  Organizations, even on shows like The Apprentice, that could potentially happen just so we can see that growth.

Yeah, I think expanding. Opportunities granted to individuals as, to  black males, which I'm, I'm yet to see yet as winners. Yeah. In the investment stages of the show.  Yeah. I like it. You know, let's, let's. Be fair and square with everyone, you know, everyone, especially if it's a competition, let's give everyone the fair chances and life and whatever.

It should be a fair playing field. And come on, let's go. Who's working the hardest, who's putting in the hours, who's got the passion, who's got the drive, you know, and then, you know, it's right. It's like a sprint. You get on the line, you know, running race. And it's all, it's all fair and square. Yeah, a hundred percent.

And even the fairness even begins from the, especially on shows like The Apprentice, that fairness would even begin from the, the recruitment process. Like you said, they'll pick people to fit into certain stereotypes. So you find certain people are picked to fit into the stereotypes where you'll find there are so many credible young black men who could have been picked and brought to the show.

Yeah. But they aren't because they don't fit into  that narrative that's needed to be. Exactly. So what's your work life balance like? Do you have a good work life balance or not really? I like to think I do, um, I'd have this much time to do this and I spend this much time with the kids and I will ensure that I'm structured so that I don't just work 24 7.

Yeah. There, there,  I was slipping into that but then I found that.  I can't keep using the excuse. I'm busy. I'm busy. I'm busy Because if I keep using that excuse as a mindset thing, I will always be busy Whereas when I started to think, you know, I can do all these things. I can spend enough time with the girls I can go on family holidays.

I can work and grow raise a family I I can grow up in a business environment where We saw the most successful businessmen as guys who were never really family guys, though the woman would be at home with the kids and the family and you would have to be out doing, and I was like that's not fair because I've seen my wife run a business, be a lecturer, look after, like you, look after the kids, she's got her things going on, she can do it all, and there's two of us, we can both do it.

So what do you think you have in your personality that  Accelerating success, like genuinely, what is it? What is it? I'm able to work with individuals and help them to grow and that allows them to take on a lot more than they would have before. So, um,  that personally trait that I have has helped me to grow because I'm then empowering people to do a lot more, which gives me a lot more time.

Yeah. Whereas if I was almost like a micromanager or I was a bit like, um, I don't know, all over people, it wouldn't allow me to grow, wouldn't allow them to grow and I'd end up being more busy. So, um, that's just an empathy and allowing people to understanding people.  And being good at sales, let's be honest.

Yeah. You can't really not be good at sales. Well, you know what? I think I'm a good salesperson because I am so good at people. People gauge honest people. Yeah. And if I'm sending you something I'm talking to, and you can see my attitude, I'm a genuine person.  And because of that, and just my values and morals.

Exactly, the values and morals, right? When you're an individual where you have a vision, and you just want to, and you're authentic, and your heart's pure in what you want to do. I find that when you're trying to set things up at times, and a lot of people will know this, one of the biggest reasons for organisations not failing are co founder disputes, and it's a huge, huge issue.

It's a big deal, yeah. And I think, um, one of the early lessons I had in Remotely, especially, were the individuals that I brought on to support me in building things, because you find that if you're building something quite big  The human heart is very difficult to read, read, and individuals become jealous about you from realising.

Ooh. They become, they, you know, they can become jealous, they can become bitter, they can become angry, and when you're working with individuals, like, you don't really see that. Jealous of what?  They're another person's perceived success. So let's say, for example, we said something coming, you're a CTO and I'm a CEO, and you're seeing that I'm  perceived to be seen as the leading light or something. 

It can play into someone's psyche. And I've realized that jealousy, I believe, stems from not understanding your true calling. If you understand what you've been called to do and you understand what you're meant to do as an individual, you can never become jealous of somebody if you know what you're doing.

When you don't know what you're doing, You find yourself floating all the time. I've seen people that I've helped set up. I've, I've  brought on board to help me set up this business. Go away and want to set up their own business doing the same thing. When your dream was always being an actor. Yeah. It shows that you don't understand what your true calling is.

You're just doing whatever it is so that you can gain perceived success. But then you're not as an individual fully understanding. What is it you want to do? And I realized that with the, with the human heart, it, it's difficult to read. And as a founder, as I'm growing as a founder and, and I'm learning more, I'm starting to really understand, I really wanna understand people's whys. 

When i'm doing things and that's helped in these challenges if I understand your why Yeah, I get what is you're looking for I can help lead you and get you to what you're looking for If we have a discussion from the beginning stage and you cannot tell me a why It can become difficult because if something happens and you don't really have a strong voice the way you're doing something  your heart could go in any any which direction and As a founder, it's so important that you understand.

Yeah, you don't want to bring in people of strong ways. Yeah, someone that's competing with you in some ways. And that's, I would call it a type of insecurity. It's not finding a calling, but it's also a type of just feeling insecure about who they are. Not really knowing who they are, but just not feeling comfortable completely with who they are because. 

First of all, why would they join with you if they weren't comfortable in the first place?  So you're working through anything difficult now? Now? Any challenge?  There's always challenges in life. What's the main challenge now with remotely?  I think one of the main challenges is as we're scaling the business, um, it does become more and more challenging, um, managing more and more diverse people. 

I'm going to see more diverse people different from different walks of life, ages. Um, and as anyone will know, the most difficult or challenging thing is managing people. Yeah. Um, it's a unique challenge, but it's beautiful all the same when you're managing people, um, working with different people and seeing their growth through certain areas of their life, seeing them develop, seeing them grow, seeing them change their minds.

It's so rewarding. But it's not easy the same way as when you have a child in the first two years of a child's life They seemingly trying to kill themselves every single day. Yeah, the new creative way just to be a finger in a plug Just to be nuts and you see that growth is worth the journey, but it's difficult all the same I think that's what it's like when you're growing a startup, which is our baby And when you're working with people in that startup It's going through that process of them come on with that kids to toddlers to  It's very tough and going through that process is challenging but very rewarding and um, I do have grey hairs now, I do have sleepless nights but it's all so rewarding.

For anyone listening, um, who wants to become an entrepreneur and  follow, you know, in footsteps, what, what tips do you have for them? What would you, what would you say? Make sure you keep going with your idea for at least 18 months.  Wow. 18 months. At least 18. And it was very specific with the 18 18 months.

Once you go past that 18 month period, you can assess and see whether that actually works or not. And don't stop before then because you will see dips and don't get too encouraged with any.  Spice, you see just keep going and don't give up before then after that period to see where you are That's why it's a lot of entrepreneurs because you find that a lot of times entrepreneurs can either get overly excited what what they see in the first three four six five six months or get discouraged by what they see after The first year and after the first year if we took that approach, we probably wouldn't I have got where we've got to yes, we grew and we did extraordinarily well.

Yeah, but it wasn't I'm very ambitious person I wanted to do more  So and again in the first year where we'll look for funding when you get funding then obviously after that We had those offers come towards us. I could have become discouraged, but I wouldn't knows I ever  that came to me, not wanting to invest or not believing in the idea.

Different industry experts who messaged me, direct messaged me, telling me that one of them said the idea was chronically, um, flawed. Ugh! Sting! There was no need to even say it. Chronically flawed. How wrong was he? And I always remember that one specifically because he was an in court industry expert.

Yeah, it's tough when it comes from someone like that. Yeah, when they bring you down. I didn't care, it was more so, it got me thinking what must he say to other people who maybe don't have the resilience I have. How does he approach or speak to these individuals if you're in this? in quote, perceived position.

Why would you say that? Thank God you didn't take that personally.  No, no, no. And I was like, why would you say that? And it's a case where there was so much that was said and done to us in that first year where individuals now have come back to me for apologize  or message me or say, Oh, I heard this about you.

That's not true. Or I perceive this about you. That's not true. And for me, it's a case where. If I had stopped after the first 12 months, none of this would have been seen, but we kept going after the first 18 months. You've had all that practice though, your whole life. You've been rejected, you had to move to these locations, or you were treated a certain way, and you know, you've, you've been, you've been facing with, it's almost like it's prepared you, it's laid a very good foundation for you to be like strong now, and you know, you're like, okay.

And your support network too, which is so important, your wife, you know, your dad, your mom, those, your families, it's, it's, it's It's truly a blessing to have that. You said on LinkedIn, if it's for you, it won't pass you. Do you really believe that? I genuinely do. If it's for you, it will not pass you. And I know a lot of people be like, yeah, I've had opportunities that I should have had that have passed me.

So I don't believe in that. But for me, it's a case where if you look at it from a, a, a, a really faith led perspective or a different perspective, things, certain opportunities will come to you that in that moment you really want. And then when they do pass, you're like, Oh, why didn't it come? Why didn't I get?

And you keep pushing on diligently and with perseverance and hard work, and then you understand why you didn't gain opportunity. There were certain jobs I applied for before I got the guardian role that I really wanted. I didn't get them. And I was like, why wouldn't I have got that role? Why this? Why that?

It was perfect. If I hadn't have got the Guardian role, it wouldn't have led me into setting up remotely. If I hadn't have done some of the roles I did initially, it wouldn't have given me the experience in regards to sales. And sometimes you want something and don't realise it's actually not the best for you It's not the best for you.

Yeah. I agree with this. And then life experiences are going through whether it's, um, through struggle or whether it's through, um,  Um, a lack of, or whether it's roles that you don't particularly like, or around people you don't particularly like, or around the manager you don't particularly like, it shows something about yourself that you need to work on, characteristics you have you need to work on, and hone.

Because I believe that environments that you're put in show you who you are, and then once you know who you are, it's up to you to change aspects of yourself to go to another level. If you've worked in an environment where you've seen yourself, you're not a very patient person. And that work environment showed you that.

You then know in order to get to the next level in your life, you need to become more patient. You can take that as a life lesson to grow. Yeah. Or to stay where you are. And I see that the people who are the most successful see that. Like, you know what? I love that working experience, but it was so horrific, but it showed me exactly who I was.

I'm taking that lesson to become a better person. I'm with you on that. Do you think people should be allowed to take their kids to work? Do you think? We're human beings and we live in the real world. And I think that, A lot of times we, we, we create this, I don't know, this idea of business and that's not realistic.

Yeah, we, we, the pandemic showed us that though.  Some people could not hide away from their kids in the pandemic and their kids would jump onto video calls and burst into rooms. It was, it showed us. That's the real world. And the dog, and the cat. Everything, everything could be shown. Everything would be exposed.

Everything would be revealed. And I think, why have we just suddenly taken that away now that the pandemic is somewhat over? And now we're back in offices and suddenly, oh, it's back to that level of what is perceived professionalism.  Is it though because if you got a mother who is struggling to find child care on that day  But then your business is going to struggle because she's gonna have to  Stay away from the office So that she has to look after this child Wouldn't it be better if he's let the child come to the workplace so she could do the work But at the same time look after the kid there's certain things that just should be allowed to happen for me  My son comes to the office, he was amazing, he spoke to, he spoke to you, babbled with everybody, was playing and laughing, joking, the girls come in, got to show them, um, what my office actually looks like, because they've never been to Garland before, so they're like, oh, this is what you've been doing all these years, I'm like, yes, kids, this is real, and the HR, um, our head of people brings her kids in, the other people who have brought their kids in, and it's, it's beautiful them doing that, because it shows that we, The whole idea of being a family, um, it's a bit touchy in business because some people say that you can't consider your work people as family, some people say you can.

In a startup environment, um,  I would say that at times certain individuals do become your family. You're building something that's lifelong, it's changing lives, you're doing something that is revolutionary and you do end up creating family members. Thank you so much for taking the time to come here today and tell us your story and I know that it's going to inspire people.

I know you've, you've been on a very interesting journey. You still are on that journey and we look forward to seeing  how it goes. You know, we'll catch up again in a few years and see where we are.  so much.