What's it Really Like to Be Lord Sugar's Business Partner?

Life After Winning: Mark Wright on Lord Sugar, Business Success, and a £10M Exit

Join Beyond the Boardroom with Aleksandra King as we uncover the remarkable journey of Mark Wright, winner of The Apprentice 2014 and entrepreneur behind a multi-million-pound digital marketing empire. From partnering with Lord Sugar to navigating the pressures of public scrutiny, Mark offers an unfiltered look at the highs and lows of his career and life after reality TV.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What life is really like after winning The Apprentice.
• The unique challenges and benefits of having Lord Sugar as a business partner.
• How Mark scaled his company from 230 small clients to a £10 million sale.
• The personal toll of fame, lawsuits, and burnout.
• Why Mark’s focus now includes work-life balance, mindfulness, and a fresh start in Australia.

Key Moments:

• 2:30 – Behind the scenes: Winning The Apprentice and the reality that followed.
• 6:50 – From small clients to a £10 million exit: Mark’s business transformation.
• 14:15 – Surviving the pressures of fame, lawsuits, and burnout.
• 22:45 – Lessons from Lord Sugar: Mentorship, resilience, and ruthless decision-making.
• 28:30 – Building a life by design: Mark’s priorities and move to Australia.
• 34:00 – The role of ruthlessness in achieving success.

Why Listen?
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a fan of The Apprentice, or looking for inspiration to overcome challenges in business and life, Mark’s candid reflections and practical insights are a must-listen.

🎧 Tune in now for:
💡 Bold lessons in resilience, authenticity, and scaling a business.
🌍 A unique perspective on entrepreneurship from the UK to Australia.
🔥 Honest advice on thriving under pressure and designing a fulfilling life.

#TheApprentice #MarkWright #LordSugar #Entrepreneurship #DigitalMarketing #Podcast #BusinessSuccess #BeyondTheBoardroom #StartupJourney #AleksandraKing

The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of Aleksandra King, the podcast, or its producers. This podcast is for entertainment only.

Transcript

 You won BBC The Apprentice. I think I, I won it almost easily. I said, hi, my name's Mark Wright and I'm the winner of the 2014 Apprentice.  And she was like, she just laughed. Anyway, on the night that I won the show, the lady from the reception came in to the You're Hired show and she said, do you remember me?

I'm the lady from reception. And you said, your name's Mark Wright and you're gonna win the show and you won it. 

What are you afraid of  in life? Are you running from anything? 

I'm Alexandra King, and I'm the host of Beyond the Boardroom podcast. In this episode, we look at what happened after Mark won The Apprentice. How much help did Mark actually get? What actually happened and why did he land up selling his business and walking away? Tune in. 

So  you go in, you then win 250, 000  investment. How do you feel? 

It felt like a made up fairy tale sort of moment. It was like all my family was there and the sort of.  There was so much happening. And, uh, you know, I, when my social media following went through, like went up hundreds of thousands in one day, people on the street were asking me for selfies.

I mean, you, you, you'll know this, it's just.  I went from being a regular person that's backpacking in the UK to like everyone asking for photos, hundreds of thousands of people on social media,  um, people wanting me to pay me to go here and do this. And it was just so much, it was too much. I couldn't, um, process it at the time.

I probably haven't even processed it to, to this day. It was,  It was a once in a lifetime, incredible, enjoyable experience. And I, I I'll look back on it when I'm sitting in a nursing home and I think no matter what happens in my life before that point or to the day I die,  that will be one of the things I think about on my deathbed.

It's 

a moment of elation of complete ecstasy must be.  So. You then have Lord Sugar as a business partner. You're one year in, you're turning over 1. 7 million. You've got over 30 members of staff. You've got  230 odd clients. That's a lot of clients, by the way, to cope. I mean, I know a thing or two about digital marketing companies, agencies, such as, such as the one you were running.

My husband runs the same and it's like 230 clients. So  how are you coping with the pressure? And then you've got Lord sugar and his accounting team and you've got meetings. Like, how are you even surviving?  

Not, not well, not well. I made a lot of mistakes in the first two years, the first three years, particularly.

Uh, my main mistakes being exactly what you just highlighted. I, I got way too many staff on low salaries. So the quality of the employee was, was, was not fantastic. And that caused its own issues. Uh, we got way too many customers on low retainers. On small budgets. So it sounds great to say 230 customers, not if they're all paying a hundred pound each, that's, that's terrible.

So the numbers, and it all sounds great on paper. There was some issues like the old duck, you know, smooth on the surface and the legs were going crazy underneath. And if you looked at my agency, when I sold it. We had like, I think we had like 43 customers,  uh, 45 customers, but they were enormous. Yeah. And we had, you know, uh, not many more staff than, than, than the numbers you read out.

Okay. There are quite a few more. Yeah. But it was a long time, a better but on big salaries and, you know, it was just working more harmoniously.  So the things, the stress of winning the show, having the money, having Alan Sugar as your business partner. Um, and the, and it was the first time I'd ever owned and ran a business.

So I'm a business owner for the first time. I'm business partners with Lord Sugar for the first time. I've never seen 250, 000 pounds before. That's all new. Yeah. I mean, at this 

point, are you getting advice is Lord sugar saying, listen, like you need to scale back. You, you, you, you're growing too quickly.

The retainers are too small. I mean, are you getting advice or is it all on you?  

It's all on me. A hundred percent, a hundred percent all on you. And he tells you at the very start, you are going to do this on your own boy. I'm going to look after the accounting, the finance, bring to me legal stuff, but I don't want to know about digital marketing.

Okay. I don't want to know about, you know, this, that, and the other, I'll see you once a month at the board meeting, but you are either going to make it work or you're not going to make it work. Gosh, 

you're in hot water. You've got this public following, you're now a public figure and you better succeed or else.

Yeah. And it, you feel it. I felt every ounce of the pressure.  People, uh, we got sued. We had other digital marketing agencies hacking our website, hacking our server. hammering us on SEO, hammering us, giving us negative reviews. We had, I mean, it was a lot. I was stacking on weight, um, and eating and drinking really unhealthily, working just hours that were  unbelievable for a sustained period.

It was a hard, hard, hard time. Um, I, it was, it was, Thank God I was 24 and young and didn't have many obligations because I pretty much lived in the office. Yeah, you have to, you have to. And, and I just made it, I made what  I made the opportunity work, but it took some working. 

You see, you definitely have to be at that right stage in your life.

I mean, yeah, I, I knew that that would have been as a 30 or 34 year old person, I knew that the outcome would be  all of that. And you would have to literally give everything without any scope because it's all on the table and it's like all or nothing situation. So you have to be direct. You have to live 

your life.

You have to. You have to submit, you give your life for that opportunity and the apprentice winners that haven't been as  successful with the opportunity that I have, they haven't, and it might be the right decision for them in their life and the place they're at. They haven't given their life to that opportunity and it hasn't worked. 

Yeah, I could kind of tell that that's the direction it's going in. And when I met Lord Sugar in person, he reminded me of my own dad who has the same work ethic. My dad's also in business and like crazy strict and totally like that, you know,  and I had already had my kids and I was thinking, I'm not sure I want to necessarily work in that way now.

I had wanted it when I was. The age when you went into The Apprentice, because that's how I was working in, in what I was doing, you know, billing systems, implementations, and things. So I would do crazy hours. And I love that in the middle of nowhere, in a, in a Gambian jungle or whatever, you know,  as your life changes, it's like, how much are you going to give?

And also how much can you physically give? So, so you're not putting on weight, you're now  you're drinking, you're not sort of balancing the work life thing and you're getting stressed. So what's, what's going on now? What's happening to you and how, how are you managing? 

It wasn't, it wasn't good. It, it manifested in, um, me having fainting episodes where I would like blackout or, um, like just faint, um, which was new.

That was something I hadn't seen before. Um, and I was just so stressed and I was under so much, uh, pressure. from myself, from the media, from the board of my company. Um,  and it was, it was challenging. I, there, there, there's no doubt about it. And that's what I say to people who, who messaged me and stuff.

They're about starting a business. Okay. You're not going to be, maybe have the same public profile I have. And maybe Alan Sugar's not your business partner, but it's going to be tough. The first 12 to 18 months of a startup business is relentless. You need to live and breathe it and, uh, really ride the ups and downs for it to get to where it needs to go.

And look later in my career, it was not like that at all, but certainly for the first three years, it was, it was pretty rough. 

Yeah.  Okay. But then you kind of work through that somehow,  and then you sell the business for 10 million. So  why, why did you sell Mark?  

Ah, why did I sell? Well, first of all, I got an incredible offer.

Um, to, to, for my company to be sold, the average digital marketing agency in the UK sells for two to three times EBITDA. We sold for nine and a half times EBITDA. So that's a pretty good offer. Uh, the other, the other side of that coin is, um, I wanted to be spending more time in Australia, which is where I'm doing this from, I'd missed every friend's wedding, funerals, birthdays. 

births of Children. I'd missed everything and I was starting to be forgotten amongst my friends and family at home. I'd sacrificed 12 years of my life to building up my career and all of that good stuff. So I felt it was time to spend more time with the people that mattered most to me. So The offer came at a good time and the other businesses I own and manage are either in Australia or can be done, um, you know, vis a vis over here.

So, um, that, that, that's what led to that decision. 

So a bit of work life balance, which we'll get to in a second. So, um, your work ethic, like from the email correspondents that we've had, you know, LinkedIn, whatever, you're very good at responding to emails. I quite like that, you know, you're very professional.

Is that super important to you?  

Yeah, yeah. My email inbox, uh, and all my inboxes are meticulously organized. I respond to everything within, within the day I receive it. Um, everything. I'll have, we have the Sundance rule in my, my offices where anything that comes in the day we respond to before we, before we leave. 

Because that is part of the service you get from working with me at any level. I answer my phone quickly and professionally. I write back to you quickly and professionally, and I'm honest with you. And that's, that's a guarantee that I give the people that I, that I work with and even organizing this podcast or anything that I do is.

We do it properly, we do it fast, we do it organized, and we, we do it that way. 

And where, where does that come from? Is that from, from, did, did Lord Sugar rub off on you, in that way? Is he similar?  

Oh gosh. He, he's, he's, he's probably a bit more than me, but, um, probably my dad. My, my, my dad always had a theory, you know, how you do anything is how you do everything.

Whether you are washing a mug.  Whether you're cleaning your car,  you always said you can tell a good employee from how they keep their car. You can tell an employee from how they keep maintain their house. You know, all of this stuff. And, and, and Lord sugar was exactly the same. He would comment to me on how I was dressed, how I was shaved.

Uh, you know, stuff that maybe you shouldn't do these days. Let's say he doesn't  give a, give a stuff about that. His brand of mentoring is, um, Direct old school. Let's call it old school and direct. But my dad is a hard bastard. He is a hard, hard bastard. So I grew up in a household with a with a tough dad.

And then I went into business with a tough guy. And I love look getting sworn at to me is It's just a Monday. Let's rock and roll. Some people get really offended by that. And they want to, you know, take it to the employment tribunal or have a whinge. That's, I love that stuff. That brand of mentoring works for me.

It doesn't work for everybody. You know,  I got a business partner that was right for me, believes in competition, believes in working hard, believes in tough love. Uh, and, you know, It works for me. 

Right, so do you ever ghost people?  

No, I will tell them I'm going to ghost them. I 

find ghosting so rude.  I don't 

get that ghosting thing.

I don't get it. Um, there's only, I can only think of one or two people I've ever ghosted. Cause I don't think they're cognitively got all the stuff going on upstairs. Um, uh, but most people I'll say, look, I'm not interested in what you're selling here or what you're doing here, or your podcast is a load of tosh.

I'm not interested. And then they'll write back and I'll say, I told you I'm not interested. Yeah. Don't write to me. But so with me, um, some of my ex girlfriends will, might attest to this. You always know where you're at. You'll always know if you can send another message or not. 

Yeah, I love that. And I love, you know, in this podcast, your honesty is coming across as well.

You're talking about, you know, those numbers that. That I read out, you know, that are from the different magazine articles. And so I'm like, well, that's a bit inflated or that wasn't a good number because of, you know, you are super honest that comes across and it's life is too short, right? Especially with things like partners and that, why would you, why would you stay in a relationship with someone when you're not like feeling it?

Why can't you just have the courage to tell them, you know, to their face, like, listen, like,  I don't, I don't get why people don't do that, but 

yeah, I, I, I, I don't, I don't understand it. And, um, I think a bit, you know, I used to be the best bullshitter in the game when I was younger. Uh, and as I've gotten older and more, um, refined, more mature, uh, more professional, I've just learned that if, Telling the truth and being direct with people and being honest with people is, is the best policy.

It gets me the best results in business. It gets me the best results in my personal life. Um, and do you know, the people left in my life after I'm direct with them are the ones I enjoy being around. Being with anyway. So it's the result, right? 

Yeah. They've accepted you for who you are and they love you for that.

So that's, that's amazing. Right. So let's go to where you are now.  You're in property. I mean, that's,  that's where you want to be, right? That's, um, that's a sweet spot. I would say. 

Well, Lord sugar, uh, used to say to me pretty much at every board meeting, Mark, we do a business for fun and property to make money. 

And, uh, I 

agree  

it's, it's. I love it. Um, I love it because  it's challenging, but it's fun. I love it because I'm good at it. Um, and it's different and I can do it anywhere in the world. So there's, there's so many elements to it that I'm working with and I have lots of new stuff happen every week. And that, that keeps me interested, but it is, it's good for the back pocket as well.

If you get it right. If you get it right, it can work. So I've just, I'm starting a new property company in New Zealand at the moment. I'm doing one in Australia at the moment. I've got one in the UK that's, that's doing very well. Um, so it keeps me interested and it's a good place to, you know, hone the stuff that I learned from Lord sugar, who's a massive property tycoon.

Um, if you know, I might as well, uh, if I've seen success, go and have a bit of that myself.  

Okay, so are you happy?  

Oh, definitely, yeah. 

And what's the best thing about your life right now? 

I've set my life up. I've designed my life. My life is by design. Uh, I live in a house on a lake in Australia which only has two floors.

20 plus degree days. Uh, I have a fantastic, uh, fiance who I'm about to marry. I have an amazing son who, uh, is very healthy and, and doing, developing well. And I have an office down the road, which is amazing. Um, I have a great office. I have businesses where I go to the board meetings. I drive to the meetings and I enjoy the people I'm working with.

And that's not always been the case. So I've set up my life where I love my house. I go to a gym. I enjoy an office. I enjoy. So I'm in this phase of my life of  doing hard stuff, but that I enjoy. And, um, that makes me happy.  

Yeah. Okay. So in terms of your work life balance, I mean, are you doing anything to do with like mindfulness or journaling or anything like that for your mind?

And you mentioned working out. So  how is that balance going?  

Yeah. I mean, I try to meditate every day, um, for 15 minutes at the end of every single day. Um, I'm a bit of a nutter about self help stuff. Um, I'm always listening to self help books and, uh, different podcasts and things about improving my health.

Um, and, and wellness. So I have two coaches that I pay for coaching a nutritionist. Um, and, um, one that I work with like a personal trainer type thing, but it's like an exercise physiology because I have some issues in my back. So, um, I believe, cause people pay me to coach them about business. Why would I not believe in paying people for their expertise to help me in other areas I need in my life?

So. I'm working really hard on my, on my health at the moment, um, to compliment the other stuff that I'm doing in my businesses.  

I love that. I love the fact that you say you engineer your life. It's like drawing your ideal life and then you go for it. I love that. I love it. Right. We're not going to move on to your LinkedIn posts.

Okay.  So I'll start with this one. This is what you're saying. I've always been different. Whenever I've tried to cover that up and act more normal, I found less success.  What do you mean by that?  

Um, I,  I'll give you a reference to The Apprentice, actually.  What the candidates that, uh, watch the previous series before they go on, the series is before them and they try and act like, or take on the personality of a contestant that's been in years past.

Always fail because you cannot fake being someone you're not for 12 weeks. Impossible situation. It's too tiring.  You, you can be you and that's either going to be accepted by Lord sugar and the public or it's not. But at least you're going to be realistic and go on to be successful in whatever your realm of life is. 

That is the same. I've had times in my life where I have felt the need to act differently against my,  my will or against who my, my nature is or my ethics. And it's always turned out badly. Differently how?  To fit in, maybe, you know, to fit in at school or to fit in, to try and, uh, date a girl or to get a job or to work in a team or an organization. 

And I've always done it to try and get some form of success or a goal. And it's. I've either got it and it's not felt right, or I've either not got it and burnt, crashed and burned miserably. And it's, I've  traced that back, like an air crash investigation to always acting, not in a reflection of who I really am, not being who I am at my core value.

And whenever I've done that, I failed. So my theory is if you, are just you. We're all weird. We're all messed up. Let's just agree to that and be who you are. And I agree that sometimes people will come into my life, hate who I am and they leave.  And sometimes I'll come in and love who I am and stay, and that's all fine.

And if you just do that, you're going to have better people around you. You're going to get into the opportunities that are right for you. You're not going to get into the ones that are wrong for you. And the net positive of that is going to be a better life.  

Yeah, because if you look at someone like Lord Sugar as well, he's completely and utterly unashamedly and unapologetically himself, isn't he?

Yes. Let's be clear about that. And like your dad and my dad, you know, it's people with strong personalities. That don't apologize for who they are. And they 

tend to live the best lives I need to be honest.  The more you flex to other people's will, you know, Lord sugar probably always gets to go and eat where he wants to eat because not too many people are going to argue with you.

He's picking that restaurant. You know, I've got friends where I know when I'm out with them. They've got very strong wheels. They pick the restaurant, they pick the bottle of wine, you know, they just get what they want in life and they seem pretty happy 

when I saw my husband at work, um, I mean, I was on holiday at the time and he joined the company while I was on holiday and he walked into the office.

I was like, I'm definitely going to marry him. And then the next night, yeah, yeah. The next night we went, went out, you know, I just was like, you know, do you want to have kids one day and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And he was like, yes. And then I went home to my friends. I was like, I'm going to marry him. And that's exactly what I did.

And I'm very happy,  you know, because if you do what you want to do in life. And you, you know, you, like you saying Mark, like you engineer your life, then you can, you have to be happy because you're doing what you want. So the outcome is going to be more in your favor.  

Yeah. And, and I don't understand, I cannot comprehend.

People who  you see them like, I've got some, some family members like this who say, you know, I, you know, I think about, I'm not so unhappy in my career. I'm so unhappy in my life. I'm so unhappy. I'm so unhappy. And I just think you mustn't be that unhappy because why would you just not change it? It's so easy to, there's so many companies to work for.

There's so many. Gyms to go and improve your, like, there is so many ways to be not where you are, but you just mustn't be uncomfortable enough because  I literally, I call it with my partner, we call it braining it out. We brain out every element of our house, of our life, of, you know, I want every bit of my house and life and business thought about it.

Brained out. I want to just, I want to design it. So, and then people say, wow, this is amazing. It's on purposely amazing. 

Yeah, but some people are also on purposely,  they have this victim mentality because they kind of like, and that sounds really horrible to say, but I have seen it in people where they like the  sort of the being miserable because they get attention from it and everyone's like, Oh no, and you know, you can do this.

And they get a lot of feedback. And in a way that feedback is rewarding, which, which sounds horrible, but there are some people like, and you're right, they obviously don't like dislike it enough. To change. Um, but no one's coming to change their life. Like no one's going to magically wand them out of that situation, except for them. 

And a lot of the time it, it, it doesn't change. I'll give you another example. I'm getting married in the Gold Coast in December, and we sent  Thank you. And obviously a lot of my friends live in the UK and my partners from Finland. And, um, so there's a lot of invitations gone out across the world. And some people have said to my, to my partner and I  it's, I wish you would hop the wedding until we can afford to come  for the ticket or whatever.

You know, some close members of family. The issue is, which I said to my partner, they'll never be able to afford to come. In my experience, poor people are always poor and rich people always rich because it's in here. It's nothing to do with what's in your bank account. It's a way of thinking. And, uh, once you change that way of thinking,  everything else changes.

And it's, that's the hardest bit of the process to change in most people.  

Yeah, that's a very interesting one.  Okay. So another LinkedIn post? 

Go for it. You hit me with them. 

Okay. If you don't have haters, trolls, and enemies, you aren't doing anything worthwhile.  Really?  

In my experience, there is a direct, the more people  That have trolled my posts, uh, attacked me on Google reviews on LinkedIn, on Twitter and all of these various places.

There has always been a direct correlation between the better I'm doing and the more haters I have.  

Right. 

So when I was broke, flat broke as a pancake working at a steak restaurant, sleeping on the floor, I had no haters. I had no trolls.  I couldn't get any likes on my Facebook posts.  Then I won the apprentice and I had hundreds of thousands of followers.

And all of a sudden people were saying, he looks funny. He speaks funny. He doesn't deserve to win. I know more about digital marketing than me. Hang on. That person doesn't know me. And all that had changed was. I was doing better. I was doing something worth doing. I was doing other people. I was doing something that other people were jealous of, and that made them dislike me because I was being successful at it.

And I have found whenever your business is doing better, you're more healthy, you're earning more, you're doing better. People start to  say things about you and that comes from a place of jealousy in their own circumstances.  I get some pretty savage stuff, um, mainly about just, you know, I don't know what I'm talking about.

I've only been successful because I was in business with Alan Sugar, um,  Uh, all of that sort of stuff. You know, I get all of that, you know, go kill yourself and all of that sort of stuff, but it's, it is water off a duck's back. And, um, sometimes I'm going to be completely honest with you.  I'm at a place in my life now.

Where I'm so content with it. Sometimes I do posts just to upset the, um, the trolls because it amuses me.  

Okay. I've got one of those. I've got one of this must be one of them.  This is you responding to an article. Okay. Headline,  how to get 55 days off this year while only just using 25 days annual leave. 

Mark replies, what a time to be alive. This is the new culture that goes hand in hand with nonsense, like a four day working week and working from home.  Holy guacamole. I mean, this,  there's a lot in this post. Okay. 

Are you bringing this up because you don't agree with my, my, my viewpoints and, and, and they've, they've upset yourself. 

Um,  I'm bringing it up for two reasons. I can see that the response from the public was. Meaningful, like there, there, there was a response, people had a lot to say.  Um, I'm also bringing it up because I guess the way it's worded.  It's definitely  trying to annoy some people because obviously it's very generalized and you, you can't possibly make a statement like working from home isn't good at all because like, you know, people work from home and very effectively, obviously there's people that work from home and they work from home, like we know, we know.

So it's a very general thing, but, um, it was just one of those.  Mark moments, I think where I'm not sure you is that a wind up or do you actually think this? 

I intentionally word some things to create conflict, because the best way to increase social media visibility is engagement. 

So it is a wind up. 

So it's not a well, let me let me finish by saying I completely Stand by that post.

And I agree with all of the things that I said, and let's break it down one at a time.  I don't, I fundamentally at my core, believe a four day work week will be a disastrous situation. If companies enter into it,  I believe that working from home full time working from home kills the culture of a company, and it's hard to build a brand and a company culture and retain staff and for them to understand the values of a company that they don't go into.

It. But  I need a way of communicating with people.  Who don't really want to hear me out.  So I sometimes go for the jugular on one liners that I know will really upset them, because if you're sitting at home in your pajamas, taking the biscuit, getting a full salary, and you you're one of the people who really take the Mickey and you see my post, you are going to be. 

You're going to be fearful that your way of living is going to leave.  Uh, and so they come hard in the paint at me and, uh, I, I absolutely love it.  

Yeah.  I mean, I suppose it does depend on the type of business. I mean, I work with teams that, you know, they just do work from home,  but my word, do they do a better job?

Brilliant job, because for those guys, like a designer that's doing a specific logo or some sort of, you know, Print that you're doing and either they deliver it or they don't. I couldn't care less what pajamas they're wearing or what biscuit they are eating. It, I literally don't care what I'm doing. What I care about is what ends up in my inbox is something that I like.

And like, you've done a good job and it better be on time. It better be on time. And also you better respond. You know, when I send that text reply, like that efficiency, like you can be on the moon. I couldn't care less as long as it comes in, but I obviously get your point that there's some businesses where you've got to have that brainstorming session and you need that culture.

I completely understand. So that's why it depends.  

Definitely. For me, the way you build a company is by having a good brand, a good culture and good values. It's,  Very hard to instill a culture values and all of that good stuff. If you never see the person, uh, that you're, you know, that you're working with.

And I think.  My concern is people can do what they want. No one's waiting for Mark Wright to tell them what to do. Let's be completely honest. But with the development of artificial intelligence and the ability now out of places like India, the Philippines, and all of these places,  the US, the UK, Australia, they need to be very careful what you wish for.

You might wish for a four day working week. It won't be long before you have a zero day working week because AI in the Philippines. Are willing to do your work for you. And that's, I'm, you might hate me, these folks out there, but I'm on your team. I'm trying to foresee what is coming and make sure that we all have jobs and money for the future. 

Yeah. I I'm, I'm totally with you on the four day working week. I mean, that's nonsense. I agree about that. That's silly. You've got to.  At least work your five working days, please. Every, , everyone. 

It's not that hard. No. If, if you, if you are upset about working five days a week, you need to change jobs. Yeah.

You're in the wrong profession. You're in the wrong career because I love, I wanna work, so I race to the office on Monday. I can't get there quick enough because I love, I love it  

if 

you are not doing that. Change jobs. 

This brings me onto a very, very, very controversial one where you say.  You don't understand businesses that close between Christmas and New Year's Eve  and that you sell more when others are closed. 

Yeah.  Uh,  it's just that really upset the, uh, the Wokies that one that really got that lit the touch fire on the, um,  people in the cheap seats. And the reason  basically,  I, um,  I went to do, I was doing something, I don't know, sending, Oh, it's moving house. And I was trying to get some quotes for some stuff for the house.

And everyone, I had removal company, internet, this thing, this thing we're closed from the 20th of December till the 17th of January. What?  Oh, so I can't have internet until then or I can't remove my stuff and whatever, whatever, whatever.  Now,  and people were like, Oh yeah, good luck working on your deathbed.

Good luck. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.  People need a break. People need to go on holidays. People need a weekend. One of the best pieces of business advice I ever got,  maybe the best was from Alan Sugar, that he's never worked a weekend. He finishes at five o'clock on a Friday. He doesn't start again till nine o'clock on Monday.

I was not saying don't have a break. I was saying that organizations should be able to take  Process customers and still trade to help people and create revenue through holiday periods. Now, there is much more than there's 52 weeks in a year. The week between Christmas and New Year is one week. There's still 51 other weeks you can go on holidays.

Or some staff could still work that week and go on a holiday a different time.  My companies do it. We do record trade in those times. Maybe there's something that when other people are closed, people go to the, you know, if there's all the cafes are closed and there's one who's open who's selling all the coffees, sometimes just being the only game in town is a, is a pretty powerful sales strategy.

Okay. Again, you've, you've explained it. So the controversy was there on purpose. Cause you're not saying don't go on holiday over Christmas. Cause obviously.  Parents, you know, you've got to go when your kids have a holiday, they've got a break, which is normally over the Christmas period. You're going to go with your son.

You're going to, you know, you want to, that, that family time is really important. And it normally comes around that period, but you're not saying don't do that. You're just saying, keep business operating, especially if it's critical business. I mean, obviously hospitals and all that, you know, that's a no brainer.

But like, you're not saying just work, you know, work over Christmas. You're just saying Christmas is my 

favorite time of the year. It's my favorite day of, of the year. It's my, I love it. I absolutely love it. I love sitting at the Christmas table with my family and my friends.  It's it's the most beautiful, sacred time in my, in some of my life is being at the Christmas table. 

But that doesn't mean my business is shut down. That's all I'm saying. And, uh, and this is what I'm saying. Business isn't for everyone. I think what I'm saying is the best business advice I can give you.  uncomfortable. Maybe your business doesn't want to open then. But  my businesses do and I still enjoy Christmas, but I'm just saying, spread it out, have customers, you might have Muslim employees that work that Christmas period and you give them that, you Christians that time off and you work over Eid or whatever it is.

Exactly. Yeah. So you be more flexible. You see Mark, which is what I, what I wanted you to explain about your post, because that, that makes more sense to me than what you posted, because obviously I agree with that, but I wouldn't agree with the just flat posts, which says, you know, just basically work over Christmas, go off.

You go like Mark, you as well, forget your kid, go work over Christmas. But obviously these posts are designed for, um, yeah. Yeah, no, they're, they're interesting. So I think 

we are talking about them and, uh, I get so many, uh, uh, messages and, and stuff, but look, my, this is my true beliefs. And when you asked me to explain them, tell me if you disagree.

Yeah, no, I, I actually agree with that now that you've explained it. I agree. I agree with everything pretty much that you've said. So, um, maybe, maybe except this one, this is the one post. It's the last LinkedIn post. Um, all right. You talk about  the fact that you have never met  a business person, a good business person that isn't ruthless. 

That  triggers some, uh, emotion in me. Um, obviously I come from entrepreneurship. It's like, it's been in the family. Like I've, I've grown up living and breathing everything that business is, you know, from the ground up, all that journey up and down all of it.  Um,  there is something about the ruthlessness in business that I have like a problem with.

You know,  I had an ex boyfriend once that  I wonder if he's listening,  he lied on his application to go to, to do an MBA. You know, these business schools, they're very tough, you know, the application process, and he lied to that English, you know, wasn't his first language.  Um, so he sort of. You know, manipulated the, the whole thing about his mom and so on  for this application and, and got in and would write the exam that's easier in English.

And that really bothered me because I was like, well, that's dishonest. You've, you don't really deserve to be in that position. You've cheated. And you know what he said to me? He goes, you know,  people like me are going to get ahead in life because  I know how to play the system. I know I'm ruthless.  I, you know, he goes, there are people out there that will sell their kidney to get ahead in business.

And he was sort of saying that to me and never have I ever been so put off a man in my life, you know, human, like I couldn't understand. You know, I don't relate  

to that. I think you did well  making him an ex boyfriend. Let's  say that,  um, and the answer is what he was doing was not ruthlessness. It was dishonesty.

Um, and when I talk about ruthlessness. I mean, resilience and I mean toughness.  Um,  every successful business leader I've worked with or ever met speaking, doing podcasts on my journey across boardroom tables  to be successful. You need a level of resilience and toughness.  And decision making ability that is, I deem ruthless.

And it comes down to what the definition of ruthless actually means.  And it is not being dishonest. It is not taking advantage of people. It is not doing anything at all costs. It's making the tough decisions at the right times and doing what needs to be done.  And if you do it with, A resilience and an honesty and an integrity that is ruthlessness that makes you successful.

And I truly believe you can't be successful without them. 

Right. Okay. So let's unpack the definition of ruthlessness, which is actually according to the Oxford dictionary,  having or showing no pity or compassion for others.  

Well, then, then, then I I've used the wrong word. 

I think you've used the wrong word.

I think you've used the wrong word.  

I, if I was looking for one word, it's toughness. Toughness is  ruthlessness sounds better than toughness, right? On, on, on it does. It sounds, it sounds more robust. Yeah. Uh, so I, I don't mean at all costs, absolutely not because, um, you, you could go and set up a Ponzi scheme and just steal money if you want it to be successful, make money in that.

But that to me is not successful. That that's, that's just making money at any cost and that's ruthlessness. And that, you know, that, that, that's not the right way to go about it. 

Yeah, I think I'm being, I'm being a little bit tough on you there because of, you know, I've read ahead of this, I was doing research on this and especially this post.

And I actually came across so many articles, you know, business articles, you know, the entrepreneur, this, that credible, you know, journalists writing about ruthlessness.  but in a very, very positive way. So it's not like it's unheard of an unusual for you to say that. I will just say, um, when you talk about ruthless business people,  I would consider one of those to be.

Steve jobs. You know, I think the way that he  operated was a little bit ruthless, not just with the people in his team. Like, come on, why aren't you working late hours? Let's go, let's go. We need to get the product out. I don't care that you haven't eaten. I don't care that it's three o'clock in the morning.

You got to work. And he was also incredibly ruthless with himself. He had no.  Pity or compassion with the fact that maybe he didn't eat breakfast yet. He's been in the same clothes for three days. These are real stories. He would not even get changed sometimes. Because why, why would you, there's no time you have to work. 

So he was incredibly ruthless. And I feel like that there's going to be a price, right. And he paid, I think with his life, he gave his absolute health for this.  You know,  

I love Steve jobs, um, for, for, for, for multiple reasons, but he was, he was ruthless in probably every sense of, uh, the word. Um, you know, if you even look at the way, what he, how he was with his daughter and all of that sort of stuff.

He, he really was. He really was ruthless. Um, but he was an incredible businessman. If you read the glass door reviews for Elon Musk's company, he is a ruthless guy. He is, there is no doubt about the way he operates. He's, he's a ruthless guy, but  coming back from that. I believe you have to be tough and resilient to be successful in business.

I've just seen too many people. There's too much that happens to you on a weekly basis for if you cannot handle pressure, stress to make it, it's just too difficult. And, um, that's what I was trying to get across in that post.  

Yeah. Um, well, I think there was one thing he said as well, which I quite liked because obviously I walked off the, the apprentice.

It wasn't for me. So I, I will always do what's right for me. And maybe there's a ruthlessness about me because it's like, Oh, you took other people's place and someone else could have something, something. But then the ruthless side of me is like, well, hang on a minute.  I got myself in, I will get myself out.

If that's what I feel is right for me. No one is going to tell me what I'm like a cat. You can't make me do anything I don't want to do. Like, there is no way. Um, and he was the same in the sense that he was like, if you want to  get out of something, if something isn't working, if it's not aligned with your, your deep values, then you've got to change course.

Like in that way,  I agreed.  

But I can tell in two minutes of meeting you on this podcast tonight, you, you are what I would call a ruthless, tough person without a shadow of a doubt. I know that you are a certain type of person that can handle.  Pressure that can handle stress that can handle tough conversations.

I know that straight away by talk, by talking to you in, in, in two minutes. And my friends have this like joke about me. They call me Houdini because as soon as I'm in a situation where. I don't want to be there, a meeting, a night out, a dinner. I don't even say goodbye to people. I'm just not there anymore.

And, um, and, and, and like you with the apprentice or, or, or, or anything, as soon as I'm in a situation, I think this isn't for me, I'm off, I'm out, I'm out the door. 

It's just a waste of time, isn't it? Mark, I've taken up a lot of your time. I've got three last very quick questions and this has come from the public.

So I've just chosen the top three. Um, I said, I'm interviewing you. Let's see, what have you guys got? So. First one, have, this is really funny, have people ever got you confused with Mark Wright from TOWIE? The only way is in 

six. People really want to know.  Yeah, I mean, this is probably the number one thing I get asked now.

And, um,  all of the time we get confused. I get letters for him. I get emails from him. I get social media DMs from people that certainly think I'm him.  We get confused all the time. I've met him and, um, He's a charming guy. He's a lovely guy and, um, he he's done incredibly well and he's a lot more, uh, famous, uh, quote unquote, well known than I am.

And, uh, but he deserves all of his success. 

Okay. And what was your favorite task on The Apprentice and why?  

We had one at a farm show, the Bath West Farm Show, and I sold 11 hot tubs and it was my favorite task because. I did well and we won, but I just loved the selling and I love being out in the public, um, selling to people.

And it felt like when you're trapped in that house with the same people, I felt like I was getting a bit of like, um, like a bit of like being in jail, you know, like I felt like I was trapped almost like you said before. And when I was out at the farm show selling with the public, I kind of felt like I was normal again, like I was like part of the people again.

And there was, there was something nice to that as well.  

Okay, last question. How much time do you really get? To get ready in the mornings. People love this.  Why? 

Can I ask you, because this is the, out of all the questions I get asked, the two biggest questions are what's Alan Sugar like? And when the phone rings, do we really have 20 minutes to, I must've been asked this 10, 000, they want 

to know loads of people.

Yeah. 

And I, you will know it's true. 

Yeah, you don't. I mean, obviously because I couldn't sleep. So I. I was like next to I slept next to the window so I could hear them sneaking by and parking their little cars and I knew I knew they were on their way so I was kind of like mentally I was mentally prepared for them anyway.

So sort of, yeah, but it is really short isn't it it's just so 

it is really really short and it's. Really, really early, like 4am in the morning. I just remember it being so early. And, uh, but like I said, I loved every minute of it.  

Brilliant. Mark, thank you so much for coming on this podcast. Like you've been absolutely amazing.

Thank you for your honesty. Like it's been super interesting. Thank you.  

Thank you for your tough questions and inviting me on. It's been a pleasure to be with you and hear my LinkedIn posts. Read out loud. That's the first time that's ever happened, but I wish you every success. I know it's going to be a great podcast and thanks again for having me on.

Thank you. And likewise.